quote:

Oh I get it, "If I don't see it must not be there!"

But then that would negate faith and religion... hrmmm... what to do?

This is your best point.

Rob you're awesome. I said I wouldn't post again but you are so good at drawing me in.

However by making this point you accept the premis that you have to take it on faith that they are doing this for their own motives. It's great to know you are capable of puting your faith in something. But you're thinking is so backwards. Your focus is on everything everyone else is doing wrong. I understand the human condition just fine thank you. I understand that the world can be very cruel. Everyone loves to put it on the sholders of the guy on top who has to choose the lesser of two evils and no matter what there will be plenty of outrage from everyone who wants to be a hero and change the world. But the world can't change and your all too right there are terrible motives and terrible people no matter what. There will always be people in need because of it. When I tell you how, you yourself, can help you merely point to the top and say "its his fault why should I do anything about it?" That negates your long winded point about me being ignorant. Actually no that doesn't negate your point it just shows your hipocracy and ignorance. Shows you identify a problem but choose to do nothing about it but be mad. Hipocracy plagues the human condition I'm a hipocrite to. Its all part of our limited understanding.

Rob the day you get to say I told you so is the day I will be saying Bush and Cheny can rot in prison. If your right I'm with you all the way.

quote:

Originally posted by kronikrob:
I'm sick to death of ignorance, willful or otherwise being a constant excuse for retarded behavior. I'm not some genius (although I'd love to be regarded as one, who doesn't?) I just paid attention, questioned the motives, understood history and human nature. I didn't need someone to spell it all out for me. It always comes down to who gains what. If that still doesn't sink in, you're hopeless.

Agreed, and as for the genius thing, as far as I can see, you're pretty damn close. Well said Rob. This is the most elequent and well organized political discussion post I've read on RockSquawk. People need to hear this, even if they don't believe it. Discourse brings new ideas to the table. This and thinking for one's self are actions necessary to a functioning democracy. Thanks for your contribution.

quote:

Originally posted by Skreech:
I will be saying Bush and Cheny can rot in prison.

Sorry to bag on you Skreech, but this is the best thing that you've written so far. As far as well thought out ideas go, Rob has the market cornered. Give it up.

quote:

Originally posted by Skreech:
However by making this point you accept the premis that you have to take it on faith that they are doing this for their own motives.

This is America. The foundation of the country (and the conservative viewpoint!) is that government cannot be trusted, and should be empowered no more than you have to. Anything they do, they must justify and defend. It's not so much faith, as it is a founding axiom (though perhaps that itself, was based just as much on faith as experiences with England, so I see your point).

But then, when you get to current events, like Iraq, it goes beyond that. Congress didn't even bother to declare war on Iraq. Neither the President or Congress has even tried to seriously justify it, and then when no evidence to confirm that Iraq had been a threat to America's security came to light, half of Congress back-peddled on their "authorization to use force" and whined that they had trusted the intell provided by the executive (the branch whose power they're supposed to be acting as a check against!), instead of taking responsibility for their neglect to do their duty.

When our government works like that, and uses the military so frivolously, we have a serious problem. The view that they are serving interests other than the country's, becomes strongly implied rather than an article of faith. Even the liberals start to mistrust government as much as the conservatives, when things start to get that obvious. This has gone far beyond relying on faith.

Even if you support the actions in Iraq, look at how we got there. If the war turns out to have been justified, it will be due to luck and coincidence. The same process could have been used to go to war to New Zealand: one branch (a tiny handful of people) says invade, and the other says, "Ok, we trust you know what you're doing."

Why should anyone join the military, when there's no safeguard or discipline to keep their sacrifice from being meaningless?

No wonder approval ratings are so low. Right through Left are pissed. How strange that so many incumbents will probably get re-elected, or that any senators who were around in 2002 are seriously being considered for president. Those people should have all resigned and left the public sector in disgrace.

Excellent, Mr. Sloppy. I won't weigh in too much on this, but I personally don't want someone who wants to dismantle the government running the government.

Fuck Bush!
Fuck Authority!
Anarchy!

Oh, this isn't the Punk Rock thread is it?
Sorry...

quote:

Originally posted by black:
Fuck Bush!
Fuck Authority!
Anarchy!

Oh, this isn't the Punk Rock thread is it?
Sorry...

It could be.
Fuck Cops!

quote:

Originally posted by mc:
Can we add Roofus to the list, please? Come on dude, you're not anyone on here's dad or grandpa, so stop acting like the rocksquawk patriarch. "Children under my heels and dirt under my fingers..." Oh brother.

Add me to the list....do whatever you want.
I certainly don't have a burning desire for anyone on Rocksquawk to like me or to like what I say.
Most of you just like to rally up behind one another with a pointless and futile complaint list anyhow...like this one.

I don't really waste my time trying to join the music "community" here nor do I regularly engage in conversation with you guys. I surely am not asked to join the music scene--probably because I really don't fit in and I think we all can agree on that. Sadly enough I probably don't fit in because I am just a regular guy--yes MC, something like a boring old fart--but one that can rock out and party like a madman.

These days I usually skip the complaining and I TAKE ACTION on my own and my friends/fans behalf instead, and **gasp!** I've brought a REGULAR crowd of REAL misfits and REAL outcasts to the music scene that actually leave money in the bars. Oh the humanity! What is this spectacle? A crowd of REGULAR people that shop at *turns nose up* Wal Mart and subscribe to the hardships of the REAL WORLD--coming in to the "hip" scene and dropping a hard earned dollar on the bar for a brew and rocking out to the drunken mania that is The Old Main? I'm up there hammered off my ass singing songs about the indignity of murder and the sorrow I feel for the people like you with the keys to a door you're never going to find, and my crowd actually dances and sings to the lamentations...and then we leave the bar and continue the ceremony until the sun comes up...every single time. THESE ARE THE PEOPLE THAT I APPRECIATE TO THE FULLEST.

Look everyone, all I did was I asked a simple Rocksquawk question because I didn't understand a few of the comments that were ragging on our men and women in uniform. ROB of course, was quick to the draw (because he always complains about everything, I was not surprised). So then I had to respond because I enjoy throwing rocks at him--and he likes it too...a chance to blog his ass off makes his day. Then I flashed a little nonsense so as to not be taken quite so seriously.

So Bite ME!!!

oh, and on second thought...I'll take that hug Rob, because now mc huwrt my feewings. He no likey ROOFUS.

ROOFUS

www.myspace.com/theoldmain

Simfonik Plague loves The Old Main, and Rod is a great individual. You got a hug from us whenever you need, big guy.

quote:

Originally posted by ROOFUS:
Sadly enough I probably don't fit in because I am just a regular guy--yes MC, something like a boring old fart--but one that can rock out and party like a madman.

Not everyone here agrees with your viewpoints (myself included, although I was damned impressed that you sat down and talked to Code Talker), but hey I like ya, and your band. I don't "fit in" either but I don't really care. It doesn't stop me from posting my drivel whenever I feel strongly about something. Shouldn't stop you either.

Now...will somebody flush the toilet already?!!

I'm halfway tempted to join the convo about government and the military . . . but frankly, there's been too many stupid comments to make it worthwhile.

quote:

I will be saying Bush and Cheny can rot in prison.


Sorry to bag on you Skreech, but this is the best thing that you've written so far. As far as well thought out ideas go, Rob has the market cornered. Give it up.

For the most part it seems people on rocksquawk accept Robs point of view as fact. This is caused by the media repeating speculation and rumor over and over. It just goes to show that if you say it enough on the TV and the internet then it really doesn't matter what the facts are people will start to believe you. He presents a political opinion as fact and when I call him on it he says "if I'm right I'll say I told you so." This is so much speculation based on negitivity and skeptisism.

Everyone applaud take a bow for well thought out ideas. This guy did this with this guy who knows this guy who works with that guy who used to work with those guys and they have money. Wait hold the presses!! Politicians know other politicians? Shit I should use this tactic for the world of music. If...I know...other musicians and people in the trade...then they...might...help...my career! Every one in washington knows everyone in washington and they all work together. You could accuse anyone of anything. Then all you have to do is bate Hollywood and the press and bam! You have a whole lot of people repeating it 24 7. Everyone knows now that if the masses aren't bitching then the masses aren't happy. Perhaps difficult economic times will do our generation some good. We have so much time to get our facts from google and and prove to everyone how we're heros and more Idealogically "thought out" that we are calling being fat an epidemic. God forbid we all go out and work hard for our money. But we all know that would just turn more eyes to the top for answers. I say forget that and do it yourself. Any human being with half a brain is capable of overcoming the most difficult circumstances in life. You fail when you quit. The same applies to the possibility of a peaceful representative government in Iraq. When we went into this war I had no doubt in my mind that it could take 50 years or more. I also knew the american people would find another shiny ball to follow in a few years and everyone would be back to business as usual, bitching. So perhaps I should have been opposed to the war from the get go, not because of the reasons proposed at the time, or because democracy in Iraq would fail, but because the people would fail to focus on a common goal. I've said it before and I'll say it again we have too much chief and not enough indian.

Ditch troll I appreciate you throwing in the "not to bag on you." It showed you wanted to respectfully disagree. Honestly though I don't care to be respected here. Or rather don't need it. I've been on rocksquawk since just months after Dandy started it. I have taken shitstorm after shitstorm on here. Lately especially people really feel that they need to take it upon themselves to haze me because I'm young and represent a very different viewpoint than is commonly accepted here on squawk and I have voiced it much more in the past 6 months. We joke about the biggest tool thing like its a respected title or something but squawkers voted me that because I really am a tool to these people. I'm not respected here nor do I need to be. Though I believe people in general should be respected don't feel obligated to respect me. You can give me the shit storm too.

Skreech, what makes you think everyone who doesn't agree with you only gets information from mass media? You seem to be excellent at blanket statements.

And seriously, do you not understand that the bible is the most popularized PRINT MEDIA ever disseminated?

quote:

Originally posted by Skreech:
Ditch troll I appreciate you throwing in the "not to bag on you." It showed you wanted to respectfully disagree. Honestly though I don't care to be respected here. Or rather don't need it. I've been on rocksquawk since just months after Dandy started it. I have taken shitstorm after shitstorm on here. Lately especially people really feel that they need to take it upon themselves to haze me because I'm young and represent a very different viewpoint than is commonly accepted here on squawk and I have voiced it much more in the past 6 months. We joke about the biggest tool thing like its a respected title or something but squawkers voted me that because I really am a tool to these people. I'm not respected here nor do I need to be. Though I believe people in general should be respected don't feel obligated to respect me. You can give me the shit storm too.

This whole post was well thought out, and I agree for the most part. To be forthright, the reason why I disagreed with the previous posts was the mention of your wanting to join up because you were pissed about 911. This is what the controlling powers wanted, and its what they expected a large part of the American youth to feel. They had intelligence that warned them of the attack and did nearly nothing, not the first a country has allowed an attack in order to start a war.

Dude, as far as the storm goes, we're standing under the same umbrella. I play punk music, but have very little punk cred, aside from my attitude and beliefs. The patrons of this forum are all over that. So be it. You and I are jodidos unidos, por siempre.

Terry I suppose I have to blanket because when we get into these political discussions there are usually people hitting me from all sides. It also seems that this Bush conspiracy theory is accepted as fact amongst squawkers.

Your Bible comment is another example of opinion stated as fact. Granted print is a type of media, but when I refer to "the media" I am referring to current events and news media. I consider the bible to be literature. People like to hit me with christian or bible comments because I am a Christian. I don't however think I have ever mentioned that I am not a literalist when it comes to the stories in the bible. I'm sure the stories had imbellishment over the centuries. Many Christians don't like this and I get the shitstorm from them too. They say that I'm discrediting the entire bible.

Ditch Troll I respect and appreciate the whole punk idea. I don't know if I have punk cred and don't care. My fav punk band was Old Man. I don't think they even considered themselves punk. I don't participate much in the punk discussions because I don't know enough about the music. I know and listen to the more popular bands mostly and when I hit the road again and have hours of MP3 player time in the van and I plan to educate myself. What I like about the idea behind it is the individualistic tendancies. If you prefer chaos and anarchy then you have to be a rugged individualist. I am an individualist. No system means more freedoms and the individual is empowered. As far as punk cred goes, if someone is telling you your not punk enough you just punch them in the face. What the hell is the point of punk cred? Just another form of heirarchy. Its fun to bullshit about though.

quote:

Originally posted by Skreech:
What the hell is the point of punk cred?

I'm honestly not entirely sure. Ask black.

Punk cred is a joke, just like the conversations on RS are becoming.

Despite all the blathering on & on about the BIGGEST tool on RockSquawk, the BEST tool on RockSquawk is the "ignore" function.

quote:

Originally posted by DaveFame:
Punk cred is a joke, just like the conversations on RS are becoming.

Ya, this one should be locked too.

quote:

Originally posted by ROOFUS:

quote:

Originally posted by mc:
Can we add Roofus to the list, please? Come on dude, you're not anyone on here's dad or grandpa, so stop acting like the rocksquawk patriarch. "Children under my heels and dirt under my fingers..." Oh brother.

Add me to the list....do whatever you want.
I certainly don't have a burning desire for anyone on Rocksquawk to like me or to like what I say.
Most of you just like to rally up behind one another with a pointless and futile complaint list anyhow...like this one.

I don't really waste my time trying to join the music "community" here nor do I regularly engage in conversation with you guys. I surely am not asked to join the music scene--probably because I really don't fit in and I think we all can agree on that. Sadly enough I probably don't fit in because I am just a regular guy--yes MC, something like a boring old fart--but one that can rock out and party like a madman.

These days I usually skip the complaining and I TAKE ACTION on my own and my friends/fans behalf instead, and **gasp!** I've brought a REGULAR crowd of REAL misfits and REAL outcasts to the music scene that actually leave money in the bars. Oh the humanity! What is this spectacle? A crowd of REGULAR people that shop at *turns nose up* Wal Mart and subscribe to the hardships of the REAL WORLD--coming in to the "hip" scene and dropping a hard earned dollar on the bar for a brew and rocking out to the drunken mania that is The Old Main? I'm up there hammered off my ass singing songs about the indignity of murder and the sorrow I feel for the people like you with the keys to a door you're never going to find, and my crowd actually dances and sings to the lamentations...and then we leave the bar and continue the ceremony until the sun comes up...every single time. THESE ARE THE PEOPLE THAT I APPRECIATE TO THE FULLEST.

Look everyone, all I did was I asked a simple Rocksquawk question because I didn't understand a few of the comments that were ragging on our men and women in uniform. ROB of course, was quick to the draw (because he always complains about everything, I was not surprised). So then I had to respond because I enjoy throwing rocks at him--and he likes it too...a chance to blog his ass off makes his day. Then I flashed a little nonsense so as to not be taken quite so seriously.

So Bite ME!!!

oh, and on second thought...I'll take that hug Rob, because now mc huwrt my feewings. He no likey ROOFUS.

ROOFUS

www.myspace.com/theoldmain

Who said I don't like you? I don't even know you. What I didn't like was your use of kids and your "Native" cred to somehow prove your point that your a man of action. So you have kids? So what, I've got two and another on the way. So you talked to a code talker? So what, my gramps is Yavapai and fought alongside code talkers at Guadalcanal, Iwo, Saipan, Chouisell, Boganville, etc and I've sat and listened to his stories and thanked him many, many times. I'm sure you know how to rock out. I'm sure you contribute something to the scene. But so does everyone else on here, even the ones who like to "complain." Talking about a grievance is the first step, and not necessarily a useless one.