Happy Birthday dead guy!

I know there are some commies on this forum. Musicians are often rabble rousers.

Karl is rolling over in his grave right now. Communism should have turned out much better. Oh well...yeah capitalism?

The problem w/communism is that there were people involved.

True, people have a tendency to fuck up perfectly good ideas.

"from each according to his ability, to each according to his need" that's the problem right there. Communism would be great, but it requires that nobody be lazy or greedy. Impossible, or at least a good way off.

Still, thank you Karl for leading to us going into space, and lots of really cool propaganda posters.

quote:

Originally posted by captain of industry:
Still, thank you Karl for leading to us going into space

I don't get it.

quote:

and lots of really cool propaganda posters.

That I do get, and readily agree.

Marxism failed because it was/is stupid. Sorry, but I'm a history PhD student and I have to listen to neo-Marxists all day spew about how great it is. If Marxism is so awesome, why aren't you starting the revolution or moving to Cuba or China? Sorry, but Marx contributed nothing of real worth to civilization. The history of Marxism is one of brutality, purges, and murder. Mao, Stalin, Castro...yeah, real good company there. That's my rant for the day.

Communism is/was not marxism. I don't think marxism is stupid but I do think it is a fantasy.



Mao, Stalin, Castro...Fascists/Dictators.

quote:

Originally posted by mc:
If Marxism is so awesome, why aren't you starting the revolution or moving to Cuba or China?

Marxism isn't nearly as hip and edgy if you're living under its tenents. What good is your trust fund when you already get your bag of beans and roll of toilet paper every month? They take care of everything.

quote:

Sorry, but I'm a history PhD student and I have to listen to neo-Marxists all day spew about how great it is.

Oh, shit. I thought that I knew about dumb, white big mouthed college kids. I bow to your knowledge and experience, mc. The only people who might have you beat are sociology or philosophy grad students.

Yeah, the ones who love Marxism the most are the decidedly non-proletariat. I don't think that pink polo is gonna be allowed in your Marxist state, buddy.

You don't reckon they sell them at El Shop?

quote:

Originally posted by foodstamps:
The only people who might have you beat are sociology or philosophy grad students.

Ya, math grad students know jack shit about Marxism. I just thought that it was a decent idea when I read about it. Its already been said that its clear that it doesn't work, and you can get the pink shirts, but they were made in the 1950s.

What I really think is a great idea is egalitarianism...which never works in reality either. That is unless you're a hunter-gatherer, which I wouldn't mind much, but I need electricity for my amplifier.

well, math grads don't know much about the real world, they just know too much math.

unlike many political ideas, math often does work in the real world.

quote:

What I really think is a great idea is egalitarianism...

Egalitarianism is present in several different political views. The way people differ is in how it's applied. The constitution puts a lot of weight on birth-egalitarianism. Although I doubt those terms existed then. Marx saw how important being born as an equal is but expanded the idea to social and economic egalitarianism. In order for people to be born equal the parents had to be equal in wealth and social standing. That translates to equal opression to all. Over all egalitarianism would work in a small group. Get your numbers up over 100 or so and it all goes to shit. Technology and social advancement tend to muck it all up too.

Marx in a way further confirmed how much capitalism is needed in mass society. A really good way to ensure that the idea of "from each according to his ability to each according to his need" actually happens is through trading and money. The misrepresentation that communism failed to operate on is that it viewed money as a tangible asset when money really isnt. Money is only representative of the value of assets you have created or helped create.

All this makes me wonder, what is the next step? Throughout history we have slowly but surely found better ways to govern the masses. After democracy crumbles which, as much as I like democracy, I think at some point it will. What will be the next great idea?

quote:

Originally posted by Skreech:
After democracy crumbles which, as much as I like democracy, I think at some point it will. What will be the next great idea?

If democracy crumbles this is not the question to ask. The question would be, do you have firearms and lots of ammo?... If you answer no, all of your shit belongs to someone who does.

how many on this thread are renters?
how many are paying a mortgage?
own your car?
monthly credit card balance?
how many vote?


"who loves ya, baby" - Noam Chomsky

I'm probably walking into a serious ass reaming right now, but I respect you gfx. That warrants an answer.

I pay a mortgage, have two car payments, keep my credit card current and vote (registered green).

quote:

Originally posted by Ditch Troll:
...but I respect you gfx.

well that's probably going too far.

i am just suggesting that many of us probably own very little already.

quote:

Originally posted by g f x:

quote:

Originally posted by Ditch Troll:
...but I respect you gfx.

well that's probably going too far.

i am just suggesting that many of us probably own very little already.

when you look at what you actually own as opposed to what you owe on, it can be depressing. The only thing I owe on is my house.

My debt is equivalent to roughly 5 years of my current gross salary, 10 years net.