hmmmmmm.....over 1500 views on the three threads in four days. Yep, I'd say some folks were interested. Whether they were truly just killing time at work....or afraid to speak up I guess we'll never know.

Think I'll try to get the old man down for this here Squawk mini-crawl thing. See ya boyzz.

Mr. Spider,

In one of your recent posts you mention you are moving to Seattle. I left here 13 years ago for Seattle for probably the same reasons you are going. The music scene! I wasn't disappointed either. Seattle is a great town and although I eventually settled in Portland, Oregon, I played gigs all over the area and the place was very good to me. The Pacific NW is a pretty progressive area so get ready. Don't be surprised if the women grab your balls and tell you to cough by way of a welcome to the scene. How do you feel about gay people? Wait a minute - don't answer that or you might wind up battered and bloody in a gutter in Capitol Hill. There are lots of great players up there and lots of venues. Belltown used to be really cool. Well good luck to you sir. Just check your provincialism long about Ellensburg and you'll do just fine! btw, living up there so long is probably why I find it normal to object to the breast size/karma equation.

Do they like it when people show up out of the blue and complain about things?

Because it turns out not to be very popular to do that here. I think people would have been more willing to listen to you had you met them first and tried to change them afterwards. Even though I don't care for the bra sizes, I don't like being told what to do by someone who hasn't been around. Had one of the contributors to Rockswquawk or the scene who's paid the local dues brought it up it wouldn't have been an issue. I know these people and am pretty sure they don't really care to defend something so small with such strong words. The real issue here (and one that seems to come a lot on Rocksquawk) is people showing up with this whole "this is how they do it there" thing. Can people stop doing that? We are not impressed or we wouldn't be here. Maybe if you had tried to play along frist you could have come up with a better way to handle the whole thing than what basically amounted to a threat. You catch more flies with honey. Now it looks like we are stuck with bra sizes forever out of principle, which is lame. It's like Body Count selling all those albums after the cops complained. Has your approach ever worked? Maybe on the West Coast; we don't live there. Go to Alabama and try your pitch, and see how nice they are.

I know that Old Lady is playing devil's advocate, speaking her mind and trying to turn into a real conversation what could have been started with a little more respect and understanding.

And I'm pretty sure those 1500 views are just the same 15 people 100 times. I'm probably 500 of them.

A conversation would be great.

I think there's been some positive things lately.

The rally on Friday was a very good thing...I snuck out of work to go. I hope it's successful. And I vote. I think the mini-crawl (and Crawls in general) are also very good. I've been hearing a lot more radio coverage of the Downtown Scene recently.

I've done some business traveling and I've seen the Seattle music scene. Dante's Inferno comes to mind in Portland. I thought it was great, and very different there. But also very positive.

The folks here have done so much talking about "keeping it positive". They want growth, expansion/opportunities, and community support. Why not start a thread about how that can be accomplished. Opinions (popular or not popular) all welcome.....it's the idea that serves as a seed.

I came on here to do research....internet research is probably not an off the wall concept if a promoter was coming here to "sign up a band". Forgive me because I don't know how bands get signed or make it to the "big time", but here the site is just waiting to be found. It's very accessible, very public. We forget that.

But if someone "important" came on here to try and research the scene....what would they see? Would they be drawn in and curious, or would they see boobs and just keep going? Those questions you have to answer for yourself.....

Maybe try to see this place as an outsider would see it....as an outsider DID see it. Altho....I consider myself an outsider also and that's the perspective I will keep.

Yes I know it's a very close knit society and you all know each other very well. But it's not private, and invited or not, your world is being examined every day. Why not show them something a little bit better.

Levi has made a terrific point.
I don't care for the bra-size thing myself, but from what I recall, Jim and Dandee tried to discuss changing it but no one really took that seriously. I think it's because the majority of the people don't care enough to make it an issue.
it's just like politics. a few people care very strongly about an issue, but since the overwhelming majority are apathetic nothing will come of it. It's analagous to moving a large boulder by yourself.

I think the first thing needed in order to change the system is a GOOD plan for replacement.
I think a good but cheesy name thing would be along the lines with album sales. you know, platinum, gold, silver, coal, mud...or whatever the various levels are called.

blah

I care.

I care because someday, I'd like to see one of these Downtown bands hit the big time. IN SPITE OF THEMSELVES.

Then I can brag to my coworkers that I saw them play at Burt's....way back when.

You want to know who your real "enemy" might be?

Soccer Moms.

Seems like you had a lost youngster on here recently, didn't you? A 14 year old, trying to hook up with others? You were gentle with him, VERY gentle. But he's probably still out there.

What's going to happen if the site gets more coverage....say on the radio stations. It started small, but it IS growing. Especially now that you've started the big push to defend your underage crowd....you're drawing attention to yourselves. People will be interested in what their kids are being exposed to.

Just cover your backs boyzz. Be credible, be real, and put yourselves in a strong position to defend your beliefs.

I didn't show up out of the blue - I was invited along with all Alibi readers about a week ago:

RockSquawk
http://www.rocksquawk.com
Now powered by Alibi technology, this long-running music-centric message board is the perfect place to gather information about the local music scene. Want to know who's playing where and when? Check out the monthly calendar. Or simply plunge right into the forums. Log on and yak it up about your favorite local bands. Discuss Albuquerque's newest venues. Bitch about Mayor Chavez' all-ages ban. Hunt up a new drummer for your ska band. Swap musical gear. Talk about the concert you went to last night. RockSquawk continues to be a seriously useful tool for music lovers and music makers. The more people who use it, the better it gets.

I agree with Levi, although the bra size thing wasn't particularly great I think it should stay out of principal.

Swingnut,

Your stupid. From what you've said I don't like you, and I don't like people like you. The only thing about Seattle I don't like are people with a fucking spoon up their ass, like you. It's called rock'n'roll. It's not supposed to be PC. I'm friends with a bunch of lesbians that are more chill than you.

People in this country need to lighten up. Karma measured in bra sizes, so what? Are you the same type of people that called and complained when Janet Jackson showed her tit?

Smoke a bowl, drink a beer, shoot yourself, whatever. Just quit your god damned bitching.

How much more public an invitation is there than that Alibi ad.

I'm glad Swingnut put it on here - I saw it when it came out and I thought surely you folks would have seen it too, and recognized it for what it is. Maybe you didn't?

The change in the Alibi music section is ALSO a positive thing. Interviews with local bands - GREAT!!! You're getting more and better coverage....but the exposure has a price in your privacy quotient here!!

Seems like the underage issue is hard enough to defend....why open yourselves up like this? A good writer could have a field day with the boob thing.

Heck, one of Marty's spin doctors could have a blast with the whole darn place.

quote:

Originally posted by Lucas Spider:
Are you the same type of people that called and complained when Janet Jackson showed her tit?

As far as I could tell she never even showed it. I mean it had that nipple ring thingy on it and I never saw any nipple. That doesn't really constitute "showing a tit" does it? Wasn't it Janet herself who was complaining? Or was that faux complaining cuz she really planned it? I thought it was pretty entertaining. But I guess this is a little off-topic. Better get back to bitching. Sorry.

quote:

Originally posted by SwingNut:
I didn't show up out of the blue - I was invited along with all Alibi readers about a week ago:.

When you are invited to a party, is this the first thing you say?: "If you don't change this wallpaper, I'm leaving." I'm sure people here cared about bra sizes as much as wallpaper, they just didn't like to hear it that way from someone they don't know. People are defensive when they feel like something is theirs. But if you want to deliberatly miss my point, go ahead. It sure helps your cause. I mean, I've said a few times that I agree about changing the bra size thing. I just think you are doing a really bad job of it. If you knew Dandee and Jim and Luke you would know that they are nice, welcoming, get-along guys. The bra size thing was chosen, I'm sure, with more tongue-in-cheek feelings than infantile or offensive ones. if you put people in a role of offenders and sexists, then you are the one branding them and fullfilling that idea.

Seriously though, if the bra thing offended you too easily then you have no business in the public arena, even a lame internet message board. Life isn't always as sunshiney as this. Why did this have to become an "issue?" You are coming off as one of those combative people who gets offended a lot. Have fun with that.

I totally agree that a good replacement would make changing easier.Any vote now would be a waste, because suddenly bra rankings are a god-given right as an American or some such shit. Good work. Now if the Alibi changes it, someone is going to call them a sellout. They don't deserve that shit either.

COME OUT TO SEE US TONIGHT AT THE ATOMIC CANTINA!! 7pm!!

quote:

If you knew Dandee and Jim and Luke you would know that they are nice, welcoming, get-along guys. The bra size thing was chosen, I'm sure, with more tongue-in-cheek feelings than infantile or offensive ones

Hi Levi,
I think you just hit the nail on the head for me here. The thing is, I didn't get that impression because of the bra sizes and instead I got another less favorable one. And when you say, hey, these are some nice guys I believe you. So I have never met any of you and I log onto this website thinking I want to see who is out there in the scene. Do I want to go see these bands? Do I want to get involved? And I see the bra sizes and I get this less than favorable impression. I happen to be speaking up about it, but I'm sure there will be others who pipe up or simply log off. I think some of you have already decided against the bra sizes. It seems like a little thing but it points to alot. (no pun intended) But anyway, I'm gonna get outta the way now and let you all wrestle it out or drop it or whatever works. Sorry to be the cause of so much trouble!

As you were!

It's interesting how heated that got so quickly. Anyone who thinks gender isn't an issue in rock is wrong. Don't want to tell you how many times my sister and I have been told that our band is pretty good, you know, for a chick band.
But I think the best way to handle that stuff is not to monitor what other people are doing, but to represent yourself well. Other people will always be whatever they are, racists, bigots, mysogonists, homophobes, haters of a certain shade of purple, whatev.
But you can't crusade against the universe. You gotta do your own thing, represent. Start projects. Do the thing. You know. And just trust that ignorant folks will make asses of themselves whether you're around to see it or not.
Not my business I suppose, just my two cents.

Marisa, Ya Ya Boom singer

I gotta admit that it dont make no sense that their ain't more ladiezzz here on the squawk everybody knows that they got a natural talent for typing. I'm still trying to figuer out why they all play Epiphone Lez Paul copys and then complain about how heavy they are. Hey maybe you should go to daisy rock and get something you can handle. Fellaz all you need to do to keep the bra size label is keep the ladiezzz happy. You got to ley your girl know she's something special. I recomend a romantic evening at home light some candle's and lots of smooth talking. Bust out with the Boones farm strawberry hill adn a marie calendar lasagna and see what you can talk her into. Show a little motherfucking sensitivity. Keep the smoking to a minnimum and if you dip use skoal bandits to keep the chaw outta her mouth. Doing these things will keep your lady happy and more importantly in line so their aint so much bitching and complaining. It'z also a good idea to clean up real good the day before your love fest so you don't got as many roaches crawling across the floor in the dark. They like that dark quiet shit so you may want to spray some raid and shit too. Also make sure your buddies know not to come by and see if your holding. Camaro Matt knows what the ladiezzz like and they dont like to be interupted Men need to stop being such pussies these days too though. Dont let your lady start to try pushing you areound or that shit will never stop. You got to remind her all the time who and what a man is. This hombre don't play that shit!

Laterzzzzz!

http://www.myspace.com/9819842

Wow. That's hot. Especially the part about the dip.

quote:

Originally posted by Camaro Matt:
I gotta admit that it dont make no sense that their ain't more ladiezzz here on the squawk everybody knows that they got a natural talent for typing.

Oh I just can't help myself laughing. Camaro Matt, you're right. I, for one, do have a natural talent for typing. And if I ever got you in our house for band practice, I imagine you and I could have a pretty good five year discussion about how men and women relate to one another. It would be a very friendly discussion with laughter, tolerance and BEER. I wouldn't say you were stupid, and you wouldn't say I was a femi-nazi. Or if you did, you'd probably have to give the point under the sheer force of my non-stop mouth...and the fact that you'd get drunk and I'd stay sober. I don't know who would eventually "win" our debate, but I think I'd enjoy it. In person, I think I'm pretty easy to get along with....at least people tell me so...especially after they've puked all over my bathroom floor. The way bands break up and recycle themselves, I wouldn't be surprised if that happened someday. You've always been one of the characters here, and you've given me a lot to smile about. I wouldn't set you up with my sister though.

Levi, I appreciate your points. The place I'd differ with you is on the part about being invited to a party and being rude about the decor!! That's something I'd never do for sure. The difference lies in it being private, or at someone's personal residence. To an extent I HAVE played the devil's advocate and I AM reaching for the "better" side of some of the folks on here. Basically because I know it's there. I recall reading the parts where they ASKED about it....I KNOW it wasn't INTENDED to be offensive. But it doesn't always come across as positive, and that's what I thought this place was about.

I don't think anyone was truly trying to take a shot at any of the local icons...in fact, maybe the folks that have been on here the longest should even be tagged as "icons". It's really JUST a housekeeping issue - not a holy crusade or an attack on the founding fathers. Back when this place got started, it WAS kind of a private residence. Dandee et.al. were keeping it going and paying the bills, so they had every RIGHT to call the tune. They had a great idea and I think they gave it a good start.

I checked out this week's Alibi and found many, many references to the site. And again, there was an invitation to the population at large to log on and participate. My argument (aside from the fact that it's embarrassing) lies mostly in the fact that it's not a private place anymore...it's growing. Changing the Karma Status is just a growing pain. If the Alibi changes it - and I think they will - it won't be a sell-out. It would only be common sense.

If the way it was brought up was less than complimentary, I've certainly seen a lot MORE vicious things said over the course of the debate. While I don't think the Icons necessarily have to play Welcome Wagon....maybe count to ten and try to "turn the other cheek" first? You learn from whatever doesn't kill ya....and this was only a small thing. Why not just let it remain a small thing and let it go.

If you want to defend principals, why not go for something that's easier to defend, like the all-ages thing. Pride is the only thing keeping some of you going on it anyway...surely you're bigger men than that. That's always been my thought anyway.

I don't think anyone is trying to take over the world here, we're not going to hold chants and rallies about what monsters men are. Or maybe the Wicca Lady could put a curse on RAMS again - now that was really a hoot. And if you really want to argue the idea that this isn't about MUSIC....I could probably quote you a dozen threads, current and past, that have even LESS to do with it. Quite a few debates that led to threats of violence as well....if you ask me, that's a deeper problem than asking for a Karma change. The "heat" on this topic has definitely put me off this place more than anything else. Thank God for being anonymous. (And yes I know some have taken that as a license to insult people and not have to answer for it. I won't.)

It matters. Good grief boyzz, seems like most of you LIKE it when the ladies get rid of the bras. You're passing up a good thing here.

Rocksquawk.com....where the ladies don't wear no bras. Think of it that way and maybe it would be easier.

quote:

Originally posted by The Ya Ya Boom Project!:
Wow. That's hot. Especially the part about the dip.

See fellaz the CaMaRo MaTt plan in action works.

quote:

Oh I just can't help myself laughing. Camaro Matt, you're right. I, for one, do have a natural talent for typing

Yeah I see that'z a hell of alot of typing you did there. Real pretty and a good job all around. We don't got to put labelzzz on each other baby. Aoll i wanna do is rock the clock from the bottom to the top! Fuck yeah! And I dont want you ladiezzz to thing Im too hard or hearless cuz I totally suport women's lib! years back one time when I wuz under house arest my old lady had to take a job down at Vicker's to make endz meet. Not 2 long ago, that could not have happened!

http://www.myspace.com/9819842

You know Matt, you reminded me of something very important.

I've been spending so much time typing things up so pretty for you that I haven't made the old man's dinner. And there's no band practice tonight. Why should I waste my time on this when I've got better things to do?

This damn bra is coming OFF by Gawd.

quote:

how many times my sister and I have been told that our band is pretty good, you know, for a chick band.

I think y'all are good for any kind of band. The dudes I hear say that are always guys who can't play anything.

You know what I think is funny? People for and against bra-sizes, blah, blah, but why are we being ranked at all? It's not like higher levels get you any privilages, respect or power. Frankly, when I see how many posts I've made it's kind of embarassing. If each post represents, say, five minutes on here, then that's a lot of time I probably should have spent practicing. The "moderator" title is cool and all (and, yeah, it probably makes this whole debate none of my business) I wouldn't mind haveing a hot little tag line of my own like Jim and Dandee do though.