so my pc lost my myspace passwords, and i am not going to go look for them. death to myspace!

but i still have a webpage here

and then i wondered, with myspace, and webpages, etc, what is underground? can you be underground and on the internet at the same time?

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can you be underground and on the internet at the same time?

Not if yer internet comes off a telephone pole, but with buried cable service, it is, indeed, possible.

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Originally posted by g f x:
and then i wondered, with myspace, and webpages, etc, what is underground? can you be underground and on the internet at the same time?

Urban dictionary's defintition of underground

There is a duality between being underground because you choose to do your own thing musically, and sharing that music with others in a way that is mainstream. But that's begging the question. The Internet has underground and mainstream components. I'd like to think that all of us are part of the former.

Face it: if it's truly "cool" or "great," it will eventually become popular and co-opted by the mainstream, swallowed up by the "shitstream" (J. Rotten). Obviously, punk rock is a prime example. By '77, it was already transforming into something commercial. The Velvet Underground barely sold any records during their lifetime, yet they virtually invented "alternative rock." Today, they're huge. But I think that's great. I jammed "Sister Ray" just this morning.

The internet is a monster now, an integral part of the human condition. It's practically like an extra human appendage. So someone could call you "mainstream" because you use the "nets." But it's a tool for everyone, mainstream and underground alike - why try to label it? If you try to make something on the net out to be "special" or "underground," you will probably lose - otherwise it probably wasn't that "special" in the first place.

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Originally posted by Ditch Troll:

quote:

Originally posted by g f x:
and then i wondered, with myspace, and webpages, etc, what is underground? can you be underground and on the internet at the same time?

Urban dictionary's defintition of underground

There is a duality between being underground because you choose to do your own thing musically, and sharing that music with others in a way that is mainstream. But that's begging the question. The Internet has underground and mainstream components. I'd like to think that all of us are part of the former.

How about explaining why being part of the mainstream is so bad, anyway? Do you feel "cooler" if you can claim to be "underground?"

Basically, you just have to try and suck as much as possible. That way you will not be liked by too many people and risk being "Mainstream".

Not liking a band because they are too commercial is a croc of shit! They are popular for a reason. If the band is good, they are good. There should not be any other factors.

Its ridiculous to think that your goal would be to form a band that is "underground". If you don't want anyone to hear you, then why are you in a band? I suppose you could just play in the garage.

Who said anything about it being a good or a bad thing? Maybe you didn't read this.

"Un•der•ground (un’der ground’), n., adj.

1) A genre in music and other forms of media intended for an elite audience, that is often characterized by its high levels of originality and experimentation, and does not conform to typical standards, trends, or hypes as set by the popular mainstream media.

The mainstream media has a tendency to steal new ideas from the underground."

I think most of us fall into this category. I don't think that's a bad thing, and I don't think it means that no one listens to your music. It means you're not the next American Idol, and you're doing your best not to spit out different versions of the same song everyone's already heard.

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Originally posted by Ditch Troll:

I think most of us fall into this category.

I don't think you could be further from the truth.....

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Originally posted by DaveFame:

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Originally posted by Ditch Troll:

I think most of us fall into this category.

I don't think you could be further from the truth.....

Aren't we all trying to do something different, something that bears our signature? Explain Dave.

I don't think 'underground' is something anyone is going for or hopes to be a resultant status unless they are involved in some illegal activity. When it comes to music, it just happens that when something is not 'popular' one could consider it underground. My solo work may always be 'underground', mostly because it has no mass appeal. I don't play music to make lots of money or to one day become famous, and I'm comfortable with that, but that doesn't mean that I am trying to not be popular, I'm simply creating the music I want to create regardless of other's ideas of goodness or whatever. If you've got a myspace page and no one visits, you could very well be underground. I don't personally think 'mainstream' is inherently bad, but my tastes and what makes it to the radio or TV or moives tends to not align with my personal taste.

oh, yeah! Dave, you've got a lot of explaining to do!

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Originally posted by Ditch Troll:

Aren't we all trying to do something different, something that bears our signature? Explain Dave.

Well this statement is very different from the definition you provided above "often characterized by its high levels of originality and experimentation". You said that "most of us fall into this category".

I can only think of about 2 or 3 people on here that are doing things with high levels of experimentation and originality.

The rest are just playing some form of rock or another.

GFX--- Stirrin' the cauldron again?

i dont know what could you possibly mean?!?! i am buzy with my guitar hero sweet home alablammo...

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gfx: with myspace, and webpages, etc, what is underground? can you be underground and on the internet at the same time?

It's hard to even have the discussion without endlessly debating the semantics. Regardless of how you define the label "underground," I think the internet is at least democratizing music, art and writing: people have more control over their message, distribution of said message, and any profits from message. If the people who control the normal media, production and retail/distribution outlets are "mainstream," then having your own hands in it is the opposite, or could be defined as "underground," sure. I think gaining that kind of control kinda makes the labels meaningless.

Common denominator vs niche is a better dichotomy to describe the media zeitgiest right now I think. Mass media vs targeted media. Subcultures wax and wane and can be both or either at different times. The marketing can focus one one or try to get everyone into that one.

If your definition is more like, "something unnoticed by mass media," then yes and no. Myspace is for sure media known and known as an artistic outlet; the connotation of subculture seems less true, since the internet medium itself is mainstream and sort of homogenously subcultured (if there is such a thing- you know what I mean?). But each subculture has it's own stars, each myspace page it's own crowd (or NO crowd), so then there are endless degrees of infinitely reducable undergroundness.

I'd say you need a new, unnaccepted, uncapitalized medium format or new, original message to be really sure you are "underground." Even though I am unnoticed by mass media, barely noticed by small media, and taget audience a subculuture, I would never consider myself "underground" by any means, since I'm treading well-worn territory (by design). And even though, say, cobra//group gets considerably more press (granted it's niche press) I would sure as hell not call them mainstream.

In answer to your question: I don't know.

Do tou think people had this same conversation (in person) when the cassette tape and the dual tape deck came out?

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Originally posted by DaveFame:
Do tou think people had this same conversation (in person) when the cassette tape and the dual tape deck came out?

THERE WAS BLOOD IN THE STREETS! High speed dubbing was not part of the artists' vision, man!

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Originally posted by department of mistakes repeated:
THERE WAS BLOOD IN THE STREETS! High speed dubbing was not part of the artists' vision, man!

The truth has been spoken.

I was the biggest music pirate back in the 80s. I still have all the cassettes to prove it.

It just makes me laugh every time I see a band or music conglomerate bitch and moan about downloading music off the web.

Recording tape decks
Dual tape decks
CD burners
MP3 files
(next format here)

Ooops, I strayed form the main subject. Carry on.

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Originally posted by department of mistakes repeated:
It's hard to even have the discussion without endlessly debating the semantics.

Levi's got it.