Hey Peeps.. just wondering.. where do u truely feel you are in your career as a musician? I mean this isn't a popularity contest. But seriously... I mean how long have you played in an organized band? How long have you been writing? How long have you played music? How comfortable are you at the level your at now? How far do you need so that you can finally say you are a "veteran" at this? Post away...

the members of the bellmont all began playing instruments about 1 year ago. Before that, we were a Magic/Doom/D&D clan. We're tight knit.

Hey Chronic, the Bellmont would love to play with you guys again sometime. Think we could do a launchpad show at some point in the next couple of months?

I started on piano when I was 7 or 8 'cause the parental units didn't consider drums a "real" insturment. I started on drumset when I was 13 and I have never gone more than a couple months without being in a band, or having a project. I've done Fiddler on the Roof and The Music Man in community theater orchestras, played in original jazz combos, improvisational funk bands, a gutter punk band, shit, I even played country for about 4 months!! It was 4 middle-aged Navajo guys in starched Wranglers, Stetsons, cowboy boots and me in my Slayer t-shirt and Dr. Martens! What a surreal gig. Beer off the tap was a dollar, so I could drink 10 beers a night and still walk away with $40. I miss all that, but things like life, bills, the clock have a way of making me focus a bit more. I'm really happy with what I've been achieving in terms of personal ability, and I think my engineering is coming along as well. Music is so important to me. I'm a better daddy to my little girl when I'm busy with music. It's strange, music for me is a combination of addiction and marriage. How many other of you guys suffer withdrawal when you can't/don't pick up your insturment for a couple days? Music is frustrating, and there are times when I'm really down on myself because I'm "not as good as so-and-so" or I'm not getting a particularly demanding/challenging concept. But music is my lover. Forever. I wasn't married, and I was only with my ex for like 18 months, but music is forever. Better or worse, richer or (definitely) poorer. I'm rambling a bit and becoming misty-eyed with sentimentality, so I'll just shut the fuck up.

I have to pick up my guitar everyday, without question! but all in all I consider myself more of a songwriter than being a musician, in terms of playing guitar or bass or whatever! I know I'm not the best at all on guitar, but writing songs is my "vice" although I'm reaching 10 years in my song writing, I feel like I'm barly starting "find myself" song-wise. Like when I write a song now it comes out exactly as I envisioned it! So I'm not sure where I stand on the line ofAmature or Professional? I just turned mid-Twenties, and I feel I've just started in my quest for a desent song, but i can say writing song is way more..MORE fulfilling than when I'm working doing whatever I'm doing at the time, and thats what keeps me going.

i have no musical "career."

i do currently perform music with other people as a form of socialization. to me, its the same as having a conversation, telling stories, and talking trash.

ive been playing music for ~20 years. i have seriously studied composition for the past 5 years. my study and practice is a ritual of exploration and development.

for me, there is no need to discuss my musical life in terms of "The Market." it is not applicable. i practice/study/play/record for many reasons. career is not one of them.

being musical is like eating, sleeping, breathing, etc...

quote:

being musical is like eating, sleeping, breathing, etc...

actually, i take that back.

its more like talking.

cause it took awhile to learn, and sometimes we understand eachother

stop me if you've heard this one before...

Whoo, boy! I jus' luv strummin' that thar git-fiddle. I's lak takin' a long lick o' dat creamy pink. Seriously boys, I don't think any professional musicians or "veterans" are dickin' around on rock squawk.

where do you draw the line?

I'd have to say that the line can be literally drawn between an amateur and a professional by, well, if you make your living by playing music, you are a professional. I would consider a veteran to be anyone in the "scene" with more experience than I have.

I would say it's in how you act. There were some good examples of non-professionals on the "another clearing of a good crowd" thread under "Wish you were there." Please reference the posts by Camaro Matt for extremely good examples.

hmmmmmm.....how's this?

Professional: Gets paid to perform, practice, record, write, or collaborate. Also makes a consistent profit over normal living expenses.

Amateur: Does all of the above without being paid, without making a profit. AKA: "hobby".

Veteran: Someone who has been shot at (military service).

In SOME cases, I don't think doing something for a long time (with limited success) necessarily makes a person better or smarter than others. In some cases, it just means you're stubborn/misguided. In the case of repeated efforts combined with egotistical attitudes (I want to get discovered!!), it only adds up to personal failures in all other areas of normal life. I think labeling depends more on WHY you do what you're doing - and there's no shame in being a happy amateur.

I thought courtesy and respect were concepts we learned in the 4-8 year old range.....more of a "given" than a work standard. As regards to set-up/strike timing....I think the only real excuse for the types of behaviors described would be for a "new" band that didn't know the ropes. That being the case, they'd need to be told directly.

I think the real problem lies more with venues that schedule too many bands in one night. I'd rather see a maximum of two bands playing. More music, less hassle. Best to deal with the problem rather than the symptoms. Or is the problem simply that there are too many bands and not enough opportunities to play?

Might be a little off the thread, but I'm curious?

Have you ever noticed that bands break up and recyle themselves all the time? But the only ones that really treat it as a personal tragedy are the ones in the band that's breaking up? There are the usual sympathetic noises made by friends and family, but for the most part nobody really cares....it's just accepted as the status quo?

I guess I've been reading the forums here for a long time - with only limited participation. I wonder if some of the regulars even realize that they use these forums as more of a personal "diary" than anything else. I would have to admit I get a LOT of my daily entertainment here, but that has little to do with music.

im tight with the brothahs and loose with the sistahs....party on and play music!!!!

well i can say that i have a family member who has performed with xzibit on mtv for the 2000-2001 new years party...3 billion people cant be wrong....performed on rod stewarts grammy winning album...and is performing with carly simon on many promo performances in new york like "the view" "good morning america" and "cbs early show" in the next few weeks...me thinks that is professional....touring doesnt make you professional....maybe passionate....depending on the booking and label...you may be a pro...im a passionate drunk...and love beating the shit out of my drums...work pays my bills....but no matter...

keep doing what you really love...you make it???...you make it...good times...

sean
return of son of 7of9
sean@sevenof9.com

A professional does not need to make money.

A professional musician is someone that plays music that makes you stand back and say "Fuck, that was amazing". Then you look at what music you play and think "I might as well give up"

A professional does need to make money...otherwise one would starve to death; a dead musician certainly is not a professional musician. If one's music has the above mentioned effect(in the post by DaveFame), then people will pay money to hear that music and voila, professionalism is achieved. In a sense if people are not willing to pay for hearing you, then you're not good enough to be professional. And YES if a large number of people don't like or "get" your music no matter how much fun your having you have failed as a professional and as a musician period. The purpose of music in its purest sense is to convey a message about life without words and solely based on aesthetic proportions of waves dictated by the intervals based on the golden proportion. An audience need not be intellectual to get this message, this is the beauty of music. Since even extremely young children are capable of connecting and essentially falling in love with well made music. A concert violinist can make even the most unintellectual, even stupidly retarded of people cry, or laugh (metaphorically). It is this power which makes one a professional musician. The money comes as an inevitable consequence of this. I myself fell in love with music as a young child when seeing a gipsy piano player capture the complete attention of and draw a giant crowd around his piano. A crowd of young, old, some nearly dead, intellectual and not so intellectual people all captured and unable to leave. Incidentally this particular pianist was about ten years old at the time. I have not seen such a spectacle ever again in my life. But enough of my rambling, noone to my knowledge, in this town is a professional musician, in fact the vast majority if not all of the bands and musicians here are musical failures.

lol

Oh My.

hmmmm...I agree with Rhian...

Professionalism does not have to be associated with money.

You're absolutely right Dave. I mean, my band made $35 the other night at Launchpad, and I'm not a fuckin' professional musician.

In a sense a professional NEED not make money off of their music to be professional, but if they want to they should be able to fairly easily and almost all professionals do make enough to cover at least a good part of their living expenses(ie a few hundred a month) if you can't do that you're not a professional. If you can, that alone still does not mean your a professional either of course...Rhian Maybe I'm just too foreign to understand but would you like to elaborate on your comment? Seems a little vague.