Man, Ralli's is definitely getting better. The sound guy does a great job, the people at the bar seem nice enough. Then why the fuck doesnt anyone go there? Is it too tucked away behind "more appealing bars" or what? I think if it werent for the live music barely anyone would come in. promotion helps but where are the usuals and the bar flies?

My only gripe with that place is the shotty table thing of an extension of the stage. Just make a perminant extension. That bar is big enough.

I think that place should be a pretty damn good venue to play at but it isnt and I dont know why

Ralli's is great. I think one problem with the crowd situation is that they haven't been doing live music long enough to really have a built in crowd. I think they could do more to lower drink prices (give the people a 1.50 beer option like Burts).

The place is on the right track though. They pay 10% bar and 100% door (if you charge a cover). We've had nights in the past where we pulled $200 per band. Also, the owner is cool as hell and Aaron is by far our favorite sound guy in town.

Ya, it's sad when a band like Rele plays a dive like that. They are so different than any band in town. I was walking around downtown before Rele's set and most of the bands sounded the same. Then you hear a band like Rele and wonder why the club isnt packed! The people who work at Rallis are real cool people so that's a plus.

Fuck that place. They owe me a beer.

I had a great time when we played that benefit a few months ago. The sound guy was on top of it and since we have a rather large band, he did a really good job getting everything set in a timely manner.

Oh, and the stage is a pretty good size, too. If there's one thing I hate, it's a small, cramped stage.

I wouldn't mind playing there again.

http://rocksquawk.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/507106529/m/7911064712

That's why people don't go there.

Love playin Rallis! Aaron always makes sure we sound good and the staff and owner are very cool to us.

But ya, I don't think most people know it's a music venue, maybe if we AND the bar promoted better...

Oh, cheaper drinks =

Well you can't complain about their sound system and Aaron on the board, both are great!

But we played there last Friday night with "Tennessee Skinny", "Kronic Obsession" and "Afterpill", but origianlly it was supposed to just be three bands and Ralli's decided to add another band last minute and there was a big mess on who was going first, funny thing is that everybody was told the gig would start at 10:00 pm but Mgmt was pushing that somebody start at 9:00 pm, well duh, none of the band were there yet... But over all the club had a decent draw that night.......But I had to split like around 1:30 am which was like 2/3's into "TS" set, due to i had to work that morning......I normally stick around for every band no matter if we play first or not, but that night I had to jet so i couldn't ask that night!

But i tried to call Ralli's and even e-mailed Rafal to find out if there was a payday that night?.........Needless to say I haven't been able to get a call nor e-mail back!......

This will be our 4th time getting stiffed there.......

I know when there is a bad night and not a big crowd we know there ain't going to be a pay day but when the place is hopping and there's a decent crowd, come on man, throw this dog a bone!

John

Amen brotha, I actually haven't seen a dime of that night, in fact i haven't seen a dime over there for like a year, but hey, at least it was a fun night! haha but really, I've never questioned motive when it comes to paying/not paying bands. But we have picked up some cash from every place we have played downtown, unless we were too drunk that night and too high the next day that we didn't really give a fuck. . . but that was years ago. . . anyways, District, Atomic, Burt's, Launchpad, Moonlight lounge, even Golden West, all have paid us at least once(more then that for everyone except the waste)! yeah but i haven't seen a penny from there.

Who knows? oh well, as long as I get to play I guess, and get to have a good time. I Love Music, and I Love playing it, so hey thank you for the opportunity!

quote:

Who knows? oh well, as long as I get to play I guess, and get to have a good time. I Love Music, and I Love playing it, so hey thank you for the opportunity!

I can't believe you're thankful for getting ripped off.

Fuck that place.

As long as bands keep playing that place and kissing their ass, Rallis will continue to rip bands off. They rarely pay, and if they do it is below what Burt's, or Atomic pays no matter what the size of the crowd is. They are not truthful with bands and act like we need them more than they need us. Fuck'em, let them get a DJ and be a dance club. And finally, they rarely, give away free drinks to band members. I guess a few of their "pet" bands get good deals, but most bands get treated like dirt.

Let me repeat.....fuck that place, and their awesome sound system. I rather play through a crappy PA at any other bar than play their.

I agree on the sound guy being a stand up dude.

We got paid on thursday... a whole 5 bucks.

That is because there was almost NO promotion! Every band's fault, not Ralli's. Now im 100% sure the unhappy bands who played there had an actual good draw to the show.

Its 10% of the bar. I stayed till the show was over. The money was given to Rele to split out accordingly. I dont tknow if that is the way it is there or because the bar couldnt legally hand alchohal profits directly to minors but thats the way they did it.

The entire money we made that night was $26. Now you have to ask yourselves, why in the fuck would rallis shaft bands that had a draw and got people to their bar and give 2 BIT CHUMP CHANGE to bands that didnt even promote their shit.

I stayed late, till the show was over. Asked the bartender who was getting paid, and when we were getting paid. I watched the transaction being made and hit up Rele for the money. What the hell do you expect if you leave the bar before you get paid?
Unless you look the bartender right in the eye and give them your phone number, or tell another band to take your share and give it to you at a later date, that shows your not interested in getting paid. Fuck emails.

Its called following through.

On another subject is it kosher to take some of the bands total earned money from the show and tip the sound-guy or should that be a per band basis tip. We tipped the guy with our own money before hand. I just dont know if that is common.

Tipping the sound guy...Well if you really want to, or if he deserves it, that's up to you and what you think he/she is worth.

I don't think they really care where the extra cash comes from.

The headlining band at Ralli's gets paid. Everytime Rele has opened at Ralli's we never got one cent. It's the sole discretion of the band that put the show together to pay the other band. Point being, there is not much of a living from music in this town. The bands are so caught up in the money part of it that it strains relationships between bands. For example. If I am asked to open for a band I expect to make my money from merchandise alone, that's just the way it works. At Ralli's I forgot my merch and after tipping the sound guy I pocketed a whopping $5.00. So Attic Banned made out much better than Rele and Machine Gun Grey. Machine Gun Grey did'nt get paid and they were the co-headliners so we need to keep that in mind. And instead of complaining about the lack of money you made why not look at playing music as a gift, we GET TO PLAY! That's my attitude towards it. That's why I went to college to support my family because music ain't gonna pay the bills but I'm lucky enough to have a band and friends in our little community. That's why I was a little surprised when I was asked by Nick what there take from the show was because when we open we don't get paid unless it's discussed before hand. It's pretty sad when playing out locally is fueled by making money. I guess I'm just from a different generation of musician. On the bright side I walked out with $5.00 in my pocket and had a really good time for our first show in over a year. Rele hadn't played in over a year so I was actually happy that people were there and not everyone forgot about us.

www.matthewrele.com
www.myspace.com/rele

Are there really still "headliners"? I'll take playing second to last any day of the week, regardless of who we play with.

IMO, if it's not a National gig or one that works really well for exposure, community service or promotion, I expect to get paid. Not to support my family, but to pay for providing a service. My mechanic loves to work on cars, but he still charges me to fix my Durango! Everyone seems to think that the bars are doing us a favor by letting us play at their venue. True to some extent, but come on! We're paying their electric bill.

Trust me, I live, breathe and bleed music 24/7, but I've had WAY too many gigs where the bar made an assload of money and we walked away with less than our fair share. I can just "love to play" at the studio.

Now on the other hand, if we haven't had an agreement on payment before commiting to play, I can't expect to leave with anything other than a "thank you". Lesson learned.

No disrespect to anyone, just my opinion.

quote:

And instead of complaining about the lack of money you made why not look at playing music as a gift, we GET TO PLAY! That's my attitude towards it. That's why I went to college to support my family because music ain't gonna pay the bills but I'm lucky enough to have a band and friends in our little community. It's pretty sad when playing out locally is fueled by making money. I guess I'm just from a different generation of musician.

Wow! You shouldn't be so condescending.
I resent you implying that most bands play for just the money. I think that is hardly the case with 90% of the bands. We play because it's fun. I've been playing in bands a long time, (probably way longer than you have) and in those years, most of the bands I've encountered have played because it was fun,...and a great way to get chicks. Money was, and still is, secondary. Many bands use this money not support themselves but as a way to defray costs when making a CD, or purchasing merch. I know this hobby doesn't pay, but the lack of money is not the issue. It's about the fact that Ralli's uses the fact that some bands are so eager to play live that they will take advantage of the situation and rip these said bands off. They don't pay, they are not forthright, they don't promote, and they don't give bands free drinks. Why should Ralli's get a free pass when other venues such as Burt's, Atomic, and The Launchpad all do the afore mentioned. I've opened many a times at Burt's/Atomic/Launchpad and I have gotten paid regardless of the crowd.

Ralli's has every right to take advantage of bands, but when there are competing venues who do a better job, that is where my band will play.

I don't mean to sound condescending, it's hard to convey emotion through writing on a forum. And you know bro, you have no idea how I am. I try to be a fan of everyone here and help out anyone who needs help. I'm not condescending and I always keep my ego in check because I have zero reason to have one. Maybe I'm getting ripped off because the only time Rele gets money from a bar is when we go on last(is that better?). Playing in town has always cost me money and perhaps I'm naive by thanking the bands for calling me to play and not expect a cent. And sptough, I understand where you are coming from and why you hate Ralli's. I feel the same about Golden West. Sid I respect your opinion and we go way back. You know how it was when you were in Paris Blue and I was in Dark Truth. Money was not motivation for playing gigs in this town. If bands want to get payed have the bar put in in writing. My motivation is to play period. When we play out of state I expect gas money etc... If I break even I'm happy. I also donate studio time to bands short on cash. You see, money has never been motivation for me to be involved in music. I'm all about helping out anyone I can and not expect anything from it. And Sid, of course you pay your mechanic. I love what I do for a living and get paid for it, but my employer put everything in writing with details of pay and benefits. This is a completely different situation. If a service you provide is good like a mechanic, it's tangible. Music is intangible in the sense that your band is either good or bad depending on who listens to you. If you provide a service to your fans by them liking you, then they pay you by buying your merch and telling their friends about you. That's why Rele has been around so long. I will not count on a certain club to pay for my drinks or pay my bills, you know. And if they are assholes like Golden West then yes I will come on this forum and bitch! It's very cleansing.

Just an old guys opinion, and you know what they say about opinions.

www.matthewrele.com
www.myspace.com/rele

Out of all the 20+ shows that I have ever played (very small I know), every band got an equal cut. Only touring bands got a higher amount of payment because they have gas to pay for.

Money is not, has not, and never will be our drive. Just look at our about us blurb on myspace. I knew what little money we were going to get but we still wanted it. We performed a service and no good deed goes unpunished.

We made out no better than you. No one bought our merch, well me mum, but thats just sad! Like you said you didnt even flier for the show, so you didnt spend any on promoting. Equality my friend. Hell, I set up a gig in socorro 6 months back where we were not even the headliners and I made sure every band got paid equally.

Like I said I like Ralli's. I like Rele too. Im still learning the ropes in this town and im just playing by the rules I have observed for the last 7 years. When we start giging for realz here in two months I dont want to stomp on anyones toes. I want to have fun and be heard. Thank you for letting us play with you. It was a rockin night and lots of good music to be heard.

quote:

If a service you provide is good like a mechanic, it's tangible. Music is intangible in the sense that your band is either good or bad depending on who listens to you. If you provide a service to your fans by them liking you, then they pay you by buying your merch and telling their friends about you.

I disagree. Music is tangible in the sense that I am providing entertainment to the bar and it's patrons - Patrons that I helped bring into the bar and they buy beer. Beer is money. Money is tangible.

Remember, I didn't say that it's all about money. I can't count how many show's I've played for free! I'm simply stating that if I'm going to help provide the bar (any bar) with entertainment and make them $6000 in beer money, I'm not working for $50. Charity excluded.

I agree with you that this should all be arranged PRIOR to the gig rather than after. There's been a few gigs when we were saving up for studio time or merch and needed all the coin we could get. When we booked the bands to play with, we told them that it was a non paying gig. That way there's no surprises.

Great discussion guys! I see your point of view and I agree with most of it. Sid, in my eyes there is no better studio or engineer in town. It's nice to have an intelligent debate with someone of you status and talent. Nick, don't take what I said the wrong way. I just costantly feel pulled from all sides at every show my band plays. This show was especially stressful because I counted on my drummer to provide the master for our flyers because I have a milloin things going on. Needless to say I never got that master flier. Also we had only three practices before this show. That's not the worst of it! We were unable to use our drummer for this show, so my brother, the guitar player stepped in on drums for the Ralli's show and learned the songs the night before. So in turn I had to pick up the guitar and play rythm for the show. We made a commitment to play the show, so I was faithful to that commitment. On top of that when I was pulled aside and handed the $23.00 I was surprised because I was happy with the free diet coke and had no idea we were for sure getting payed. Am I making excuses? No. I made it happen, we played the show because I refuse to back out of commitments. To put it another way, I was stressed out that night. In the end it boils down to me. So the flyer thing was the last thing on my mind.

www.matthewrele.com
www.myspace.com/rele

no worries on the fliers. in case ya didnt notice, we didnt put up any either. we hit up myspace with fliers, but that hardly counts.

you played pretty damn solid for having all that stuff happen. Rock on.